Curse

Leonhart · Aug 04, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

This reminds me of the time I came up with the name "Unreal Championship" while I was in school, we did a random poster to advertise something, and this was (..if I was in that year/grade..that makes around..) 6-7 years ago, as I used to play Unreal Tournament and thought mmm another word for Tournament, Championship! Few years later out pops Unreal Championship!

That was my only ever coincidence moment. I sometimes wonder why no one has coincidently stolen/created my 'Gummi Bears injected with chocolate' idea...

TheLichMonky · Aug 04, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

I don’t think you really can understand this, because you have not had something you designed ripped off and past as someone else’s work. Imo walk into any school now, read the rules about stealing works, you'll see there are HUGE penalties for doing this.

Traditional sword designs? Please show me a sword that looks similar to this? Name any katana, Dao, scimitars, rapiers, sabers... etc

The problem is this isn’t just a "similar" design as you bluntly put it. This is a FULL BLOWN rip-off, I’ll bold it just for you.

You can clearly see the hilt, guard, the very small cross, and even the fuller is ripped off. You can see the hamon is also the same in both swords. Well I guess it doesnt hurt to put a small change to the hilt when rippin off peoples work now does it?

As with the not much you can do with it statement.... have you seen every single part that makes up a sword? Doesn’t seem like it.

IMO that winner sword is another cheap take off this sword. It's hard to believe someone can win a contest by just redesigning a sword and changing the blade. Yay for creativity?

it would be different if this design wasnt seen in a large thread for over a year.

Consider the idea that maybe the winner got ripped off by this guy whos just looking for credit?

Nian · Aug 04, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

The artwork drawn by the OP is automatically copyrighted to them but there's still a certain threshold you have to cross in originality for copyright law to actually protect your work. This is generally easier to gain for drawings rather than writings for example. This threshold is usually interperted more freely on a case-by-case basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_originality

While I think you have full copyrights over the full drawing and how it is represented(aside from the pose, poses can't be copyrighted). You probably have very weak copyrights over the sword design there. It is quite a small part of the entire drawing and is not fully visible. It's very possible that the 'fan-designer' was indeed inspired by your work if they saw it on an online forum. The sword presented is still pretty much a very generic fantasy sword and I don't think it has a very strong copyright as I don't think sword designs are generally something easily copyrighted. There are so many swords in the world and a sword itself is hardly a unique invention. I think your design would have to be REALLY unique for it to have proper copyrights on it. The swords ingame and in your drawing aren't exactly identical either. Inspired? Sure but identical? No. Your copyright is also fixed to your chosen media so while Anet made their 3D visualization of it it has been changed a lot from the original design and is therefore copyrighted to Anet as well as the designer I believe.

I mean no offense to anyone so please don't flame me because I'm just answering the questions in this thread from my own experience. Copyright law is not a strongly fixed law that cover everything and has answers to all possible cases it is more dependant on case-by-case interpretation and not everything can have a equally strong copyright either. E.g. very common things don't have strong copyrights. It is made so that not everyone could just waltz off to sue random third parties. While I do not agree with downright plagiarism, ripping off and copying I do agree that the law is there to protect artists. Not their egos.

The curved blade is pretty much a basic scimitar shape:

http://www.angelsword.com/photos/ind...k123-1101a.jpg
http://www.kingofswords.com/images/shashscim.jpg
http://www.kingofswords.com/images/drizztcombo.jpg
http://www.angelsword.com/photos/eur...v133-1266b.jpg

Starsky-sama · Aug 04, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

^That's pretty different though, Unreal Tournament was already out, so they already owned the "Unreal" game concept. Your example is more comparable to the "Molotov Rocktail" bit of word swapping. lol

Back on track

I do believe that Anet could just view the submition of that winning entry and see if there is even any evidence that they could be from the same origins. If the culprit (not stating there is at this point) was lazy enough to hand in someone else's work, maybe they were lazy enough to leave details (w/e it may be) that the OP's original has.

*The reference to the LotR sword: imo it is completely different, only major alterations to it would make it comparable to the OP's or the Forgotten sword's design. Be it "major alterations" = not the same sword.

*The hilt seems to be the only difference from the OP's and the ingame sword. But from where that ends and down, it's exactly the same...

*I do hope the OP is being honest at this point, and I personally believe that this should be pursued by Anet to clear things up.

/GL

Bithor the Dog · Aug 04, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

The LotR sword was used as a referential item, it wasnt mentioned as a perfect match (not by me anyway)
As Nian Stated....Inspired Yes....identical no...

Lets look at this way...if two artists painted a picture of a scene of a river and trees etc, but on one picture it has a horse and cart and the other has exactly the same just pointing a different way...is he plagiarising or is he inspired by the view and painted what he saw?

Like I said, if artists who post digitally, watermarked their work, visually or digitally then this wouldnt happen
Digital watermarking can tell you within minutes if your image has been used on the net without permission. It can even be used within CS2/3 as an option.
I used to code websites for a time. And to stop this abuse i used to slice images, imprint small lettering and even digitally watermark some of my own creations.
Sure its horse/barn/ bolted stuff but think about it OP?

There are thousands of references to swords of this style, from fantasy to reality.
Where did you get your ideas from OP? because if you saw anything referenced whatsoever anywhere and you were inspired by those references then your doing/done the same as the forgotten sword. You would have had to dreamt this sword up from scratch without seeing any other references at all or you could also be accused of plagiarising surely?
It would be tough to prove this happened on any scale wouldnt it? either way!

phallanxian · Aug 04, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Note the fact that "The sappara was an ancient Assyrian weapon very similar to the Egyptian khopesh" and think that nightfall is loosley based on ancient africa. What's the stop anet having looked at swords from that period and location while designing weapons for the game?

Iuris · Aug 04, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I'll tell you it's damn hard thinking of anything new these days.

I gave up once I tried to come up with a completely new species, something that's never been done before - and later read of something too similar for comfort in Lovecraft later...

Epinephrine · Aug 04, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Just lock this, the OP may draw a nice sword but it's certainly nothing original. So many variations on swords have been made, and honestly it's not that surprising that one of many swords in game bears a resemblance to a sword you drew.

The debate is non-existent, this thread is pointless.

Tachyon · Aug 04, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Now if only someone would 'borrow' your idea of how to how hold a shield correctly.

Loviatar · Aug 04, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riplox

Are they stealing my ideas, or is it just pure coincidence? I know that I'm not going to put anything on the web I don't want the possibility of being filched from now on.

not at all

in spite of comments saying so there is no such thing as an automatic copyright

unless you have a copyright anything you put on the internet completely without restrictions is in the public domain given freely as anybody can grab a copy and do whatever they want with it

wavey sword variation number 222434444

lakatz · Aug 04, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Hi Riplox...

I really like your work... very good line drawing. Not a lot of people can use line so effectively. Do you do anything professionally that requires line drawing? Like storyboarding or fashion/costume sketch? Your skill level is certainly professional.

There's been a lot of opinions posted here, but the post I think has the most valuable information about copyrighting is Nian's post #43.

Also... a handy little tip... one of the things I do to prove the date of my work for copyright purposes is to mail a copy to myself and leave the envelope sealed. The USPS date is official and valid.

EDIT (because I just read Loviatar's post):

FYI...

Copyright Protection Is Automatic

Under the present copyright law, which became effective January 1, 1978, a work is automatically protected by copyright when it is created. A work is created when it is “fixed” in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. Neither registration in the Copyright Office nor publication is required for copyright protection under the present law.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ40.html#copyright

And in the UK (which also references International Convention determinations):

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy/c-claim/c-auto.htm

Toutatis · Aug 04, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

This sword design is also virtually identical to the Elven Sword in Dungeon Siege 2, albeit with an elongated blade. That game was released in 2005.

I don't think anybody can claim true originality here. Riplox, your drawing is really great but there's little point in kicking up a fuss about who copied who. It's not going to go anywhere, realistically, and I'm sure any competent lawyer would tell you the same thing. I think a lot of people see things in-game that look similar to their own ideas. Personally, it makes me feel like ANet is on the same wavelength as me if I see any of my own ideas in the game, whether it was originally my idea or not. That's something to be appreciated and enjoyed, in my opinion.

Onarik Amrak · Aug 04, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

I don’t think you really can understand this, because you have not had something you designed ripped off and past as someone else’s work. Imo walk into any school now, read the rules about stealing works, you'll see there are HUGE penalties for doing this.

Traditional sword designs? Please show me a sword that looks similar to this? Name any katana, Dao, scimitars, rapiers, sabers... etc

The problem is this isn’t just a "similar" design as you bluntly put it. This is a FULL BLOWN rip-off, I’ll bold it just for you.

You can clearly see the hilt, guard, the very small cross, and even the fuller is ripped off. You can see the hamon is also the same in both swords. Well I guess it doesnt hurt to put a small change to the hilt when rippin off peoples work now does it?

As with the not much you can do with it statement.... have you seen every single part that makes up a sword? Doesn’t seem like it.

IMO that winner sword is another cheap take off this sword. It's hard to believe someone can win a contest by just redesigning a sword and changing the blade. Yay for creativity?

it would be different if this design wasnt seen in a large thread for over a year.

Hey, it worked for the Brand-a-Boss competition...

Loviatar · Aug 04, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

EDIT (because I just read Loviatar's post):

FYI...
[indent]Copyright Protection Is Automatic

Under the present copyright law, which became effective January 1, 1978, a work is automatically protected by copyright when it is created. A work is created when it is “fixed” in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. Neither registration in the Copyright Office nor publication is required for copyright protection under the present law.

i stand corrected and thank you for the info

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 04, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

Smacks of someone whos had a plagarised design without thinking to copyright it legally. If you are that worried about it, watermark them before posting them, I'll bold it just for you

Go google "Sappara" not exact but the shape is a concept starter!

In your eyes possibly, Others can draw similarities or disimilarities.

You would have to go a long way to prove that. Seeing as its not your work why are you sticking up for it. Kind of odd.

Yes I have and it doesnt have all of them that some swords do. So is it wrong, that someone puts their opinion down from their perspective. So what, we have to get a weapons or blade maker in now to judge our competitions to make them authentic?
**cough its a game Cough**

And your entries for the competition are where? If you are going to make a statement like that surely you have comparative images to put up? no?

As an "artist" ill use that term loosley, as it appears you are someone who likes to sketch, and that isnt the only medium art work has been designed on here, and from what i can see you are particularly favouring "manga" styling, you should have a broad outlook and perception as to what is and isnt art to others. Most artists would have a "live and let live" attitude. Yours seems to smack of "i'm right you are all wrong because you know nothing of art"

I may also be wrong but the OP's drawing image was "watermarked" (eventually) within Adobe CS2. I would be interested to know how a 21 year old can afford such an expensive application.
As i said i may be wrong, he/she may have it at college or something but interesting to note that some people just "rip off" software companies these days for their own needs...Pot - Kettle - Black...if thats the case...

if im wrong i apologise and If proven wrong will retract that part of my post

A sappara and the lord of the rings swords look completely different. If he did rip off the sappara as you say there would be many different changes made in the original picture.

What’s wrong about sticking up for people? Maybe I’m not some ass who has to go on the internet trolling forms just to try to prove people wrong. Sorry, I give a damn about people as a fellow "artist (I do more then sketch)" I've seen numerous pieces stolen on deviantart and such. I'm sure you can't understand having your work stolen, it’s very serious.

And my entries? excuse me? When are we talking about what I sent into the contest? I guess I’ll have to be a pompous ass (cough like you cough, labeling someone as not looking at different arts lol) and say; we're not talking about me, but HEY please show us your wonderful contest entries.

IMO artists shouldn’t have to watermark their work. People shouldn't steal it in the first place.

Yes, I’m an artist; I'm not focused on one small part of it. The sword is clearly way to similar, given this sword was draw months-year before the contest began. So I’ll say it again, sorry for helping people. I'm sorry I can't be a total pompous ass and go around telling people they aren't artists because they happen to enjoy drawing "manga" or anime. There both forms of art, but I guess morons with tunnel vision can't tell that.

My tone to Gaile was like that because she basically said "You're nothing special"
But this was a special idea, it was very popular and many people talked about that sword he designed as well as the armor
Don't use other examples of stealing to justify this is okay. I'm not sure what kind of ideals you have. All I’m hearing is "everyone else does it, why not just steal everyone’s ideas!"

The Main thing I am saying is this sword was drawn such a long time before the contest.
think its time to close this -.-

FelixCarter · Aug 04, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Wait, I'm kinda confused by people's and Gaile's response...

So, I'm allowed to take another persons designs, tweak a line or two, and submit it as a contest entry to ANet and not be disqualified?

Had I known that for the previous weapon contests... Jeeze.

At least I'll have some good stuff for the next contest.

Nian · Aug 04, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

not at all

in spite of comments saying so there is no such thing as an automatic copyright

unless you have a copyright anything you put on the internet completely without restrictions is in the public domain given freely as anybody can grab a copy and do whatever they want with it

wavey sword variation number 222434444

It's a common misconception that internet is public domain because at the beginning it was but it is not so anymore. Any copyright violation over the internet is punishable by law just as it would be offline.

I'm too lazy to dig up any official sources to prove this tho, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Also... a handy little tip... one of the things I do to prove the date of my work for copyright purposes is to mail a copy to myself and leave the envelope sealed. The USPS date is official and valid.

Btw I had my lecturer explain this to us during classes about copyright. He explained that the above method is not valid in a court of law or something. I think he just said it doesn't actually prove anything and is an old method or just another common misconception. I don't exactly remember on what basis he said this but I would consider looking into it again from some sort of official source to verify what the deal was.

Anyway nice bit of info there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixCarter

Wait, I'm kinda confused by people's and Gaile's response...

So, I'm allowed to take another persons designs, tweak a line or two, and submit it as a contest entry to ANet and not be disqualified?

Had I known that for the previous weapon contests... Jeeze.

At least I'll have some good stuff for the next contest.

Even though you're being sarcastic... yes. If you are good enough an artist so that you can alter someone else's weapon design in a way that it can no longer be recognized as the original author's design it's complitelly legal and all. Nothing wrong with it. We are all inspired by many things that we have seen and there's nothing wrong with combining those bits of info and create your own stuff.

cce · Aug 04, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

This thread continues to be stupid. Certainly the OP has an automatic copyright on his work, but, this does not mean he/she has any intellectual property stance with regard to GW's in-game sword. The implicit claim of copright infringement by the OP and follow-up posters is laughable. As I stated in my post earlier, the only way that something like this would be even remotely enforceable is if the OP filed for a design patent. Although these are quite easy to get, you have to explicitly label what in your art is "novel" and how to distinguish it from *ALL* other prior art. Then, and only then, could rights be given. Furthermore, if any prior art is found that meets those qualities described, the patent becomes unenforceable.

People who are accusing Guild Wars of Moral wrongdoing are also way off basis. Copying and improving on prior art is an important part of society and human advancement. As someone else pointed out, copyright is only valid for "fixating an idea to a given medium", ideas themselves (a sword with a notch here, and a design there, and a slight inward taping blade, etc) are not copyrightable.

People expressing "outrage" at Arena Net need to get a clue and a life.

The High Lord · Aug 04, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I'm pretty sure I've seen a bent sword about 10 years before you made that drawing.

FelixCarter · Aug 04, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nian

Even though you're being sarcastic... yes. If you are good enough an artist so that you can alter someone else's weapon design in a way that it can no longer be recognized as the original author's design it's complitelly legal and all. Nothing wrong with it. We are all inspired by many things that we have seen and there's nothing wrong with combining those bits of info and create your own stuff.

Who says I was being sarcastic?

Next time there's another contest, I've already got a winning staff I traced.